SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST:
Jared Kushner says he's optimistic about the U.S. plan for Gaza.
MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
President Trump's envoy and son-in-law was in Israel Monday for a meeting with a pessimistic Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. In a few minutes, we'll get an assessment of those talks from Daniel Shapiro, a former U.S. ambassador to Israel. But first an update on what happened during Kushner's rare meeting with Hamas leaders in Egypt.
PFEIFFER: NPR's Daniel Estrin is on the line from Tel Aviv. Hi, Daniel.
DANIEL ESTRIN, BYLINE: Hi, Sacha.
PFEIFFER: So what did Kushner say about his back-to-back meetings with Hamas leaders and Netanyahu?
ESTRIN: Well, he started in Egypt with Hamas leaders. And he said that that meeting was cordial. He said it's, quote, "hard to trust a terrorist organization" that committed what he called terrible atrocities. But he said the Hamas officials said all the right things.
Then Kushner went to Israel and met Netanyahu. He said the meeting lasted nearly four hours. They pored over the details of a new U.S.-backed roadmap for how to move forward in Gaza. Netanyahu initially rejected that roadmap for Israeli withdrawal from Gaza alongside Hamas disarmament. But Kushner said he sat with Netanyahu and his team and talked through what he called misunderstandings and misinformation about the plan.
PFEIFFER: So they have differed in their approach in the past. What do we know about whether they're on the same page now when it comes to Gaza?
ESTRIN: Kushner's team announced some new agreements together with Israel. And these agreements are different than the original plan for Gaza. One announcement is that Hamas is being asked to give up their weapons and hand them over to a U.S. general to be destroyed, not the original plan to give them over to a new Palestinian committee for storage. And then there's another announcement that there would be no Israeli withdrawal from Gaza or no reconstruction of Gaza until full disarmament of Hamas. Kushner told Fox News that he wants Hamas to start disarming within 30, 60 or 90 days, and if they don't, he made this veiled threat about war.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
JARED KUSHNER: If they don't follow through now on their commitment, everyone will see that they're not genuine about peace. And then Israel will have a lot more support from the U.S. and others to go and finish the job in the appropriate way.
ESTRIN: So you hear Kushner there trying to show this united, strong front with Israel. The Israeli government put out two differing messages. They put out three lines in English for an international audience, talking about deep and constructive discussions with Kushner. They put out another message in Hebrew attributed to an anonymous Israeli official, and they emphasized the disagreements. This message said, deep down, we, Israel, don't believe Hamas will disarm and the Americans do. They also put out another message saying Israel intends to keep killing people in Gaza who took part in the October 7 attack. And that message said Kushner opposes that.
PFEIFFER: So given what seems like some mixed messaging, depending on the audience, what's likely to happen next in Gaza?
ESTRIN: Well, there was one announcement that came out that Israel is going to agree to sanitation projects in Gaza for public health. So perhaps that could be a way for Israel to justify if we see any bulldozers or heavy equipment entering Gaza to start clearing away rubble from the last few years of war there. I think real progress is hard to expect in the next 10 weeks before Israeli elections take place. We are likely to keep seeing what we've been seeing, Hamas and Israel going in circles with mediators and slow-walking any real steps for Gaza.
PFEIFFER: That is NPR's Daniel Estrin in Tel Aviv. Thanks, Daniel.
ESTRIN: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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