South African jazz pianist and composer Bokani Dyer almost didn’t make it into the US for his latest tour because of visa issues, even though he has played in the States a few times, including in San Francisco last summer with his father Steve Dyer. This time around, after stops in New York and Detroit, he performed at SF Jazz in a trio with Tim Norton on bass and Malachi Witson on drums. KALW Music Editor Tshego Letsoalo, a fellow South African, caught up with Dyer ahead of the show to talk about what it takes to get a visa, the language of South African jazz, and what the innovative young artist is working on next.
Press play above to hear the interview or read the transcription below.
“When you think about how jazz began in America as well, it was from people of African descent. So it's also kind of connecting on another level when it comes from South Africa because it's connecting from what was happening currently, but also something that is kind of ancient connection.”
Transcript:
Tshego Letsoalo: We were just talking off mic about how wild it is to be South Africans in America right now.
Bokani Dyer: Yes. It was a real challenge. I really felt it this time around coming to America, especially with my visa and the visa delays. I almost didn't make it. I actually had to go to the US consulate with my bags packed en route to the airport hoping that they would give my passport back. And I was lucky that they gave it back to me, about three hours before I had to get on my flight.
So it was really last minute, and I think it's maybe influenced by the current political situation, and they say that they are overwhelmed with so many applications. So yeah. It was quite a tough one and made me just, kinda stand back and think, okay. What's going on?
Letsoalo: That's a pretty hectic experience.
Dyer: Hey. You know, what are you gonna do? But we made it, and, yeah, happy to be here. Happy to be playing music again in this part of the world. And we've had some really great shows.
Letsoalo: Can you talk a little bit more about the stops along the way and your tour experience so far?
Dyer: Well, this will be the third location for the third performance. We started off in Detroit. I had to cancel a show in New York because of my late visa, and then we got back on track with the tour for the second show, which was in Detroit at a very nice, really old looking, very, decorated and ornate [building]. Like, they I don't think they make spaces like that anymore. So it was quite special. A place called Cliff Bells in Detroit.
And then after that, we went to Tucson, which was last night. And all of this is back to back. So, like, two nights ago is Detroit. Last night was Tucson. And then tonight, San Francisco. And then tomorrow, and the next day, Oakland and then LA.
Letsoalo: Yeah. That's a lot. Can you actually talk a little bit more about people who might not know what a visa entails, what it means for an international artist to to come to America and perform?
Dyer: It's a really long process, and, we had a lawyer on our case, and I think you need one for this. What we have is what's called an O-Visa, artist visa, which allows you to come here and perform. So, yeah, it's quite a long, lengthy process. I think that they submit the application about a year before the visa is granted. So much happens behind the scenes.
And then once a lot of money has been paid in lawyer's fees and them petitioning to get you the visa, there's still a secondary application process where it goes to the US consulate in South Africa where they kind of do another review of your case, and they can still refuse it at any point. They always kind of remind you that they can refuse your visa at any point. Even though I've been traveling here and I've been well behaved all the time, you know, never overstay my welcome. It's still not an easy process.
Letsoalo: And then why is it important to you? Why are these kinds of tours important to you as an artist and for the work that you do?
Dyer: Well, for me, coming from growing up in jazz music and also studying jazz, America is the birthplace of the music that we studied. So there's a big connection for jazz musicians all over the world, I think.
And, yeah, coming here is quite special because then you get to hear about the history; you know, this musician came from here and this one was from here. You know? It's very much a real part of the culture. The culture here musically is very much connected to what we learned about in school, and a lot of our musical heroes, as well. So it's definitely a special experience to come and perform here.
Letsoalo: And so then what do you want people to know about South African jazz, about the things that you've taken from here, that you've brought home, and that you're bringing back here to people to experience?
Dyer: Well, I would say that, I don't know. Obviously, my views are, kind of maybe skewed or biased or something, but I believe that South Africa is probably one of the the most distinct versions or dialects of the jazz language, let me say.
So it's definitely influenced by the American tradition. You can see, you know, through the years from the swing era to, like, people like Winston Mankunku listening to John Coltrane as a kind of contemporary, and his music you could hear was influenced by him and also Wayne Shorter, who were existing and and operating in the same time. And then you see those kind of parallels, in South Africa. But beyond that, I think there's still a special soul and a lot of pre-colonial musical traditions also find their way in the South African jazz sound. So it's interesting because when you think about how jazz began in America as well, it was from people of African descent.
So it's also kind of connecting on another level when it comes from South Africa because it's connecting from what was happening currently, but also, I think, something that is kind of ancient connection. So I think it's kind of special also for American audiences to hear the South African take on the music.
Letsoalo: I love the idea of it being a dialect in the greater language of jazz. What would you say are the key characteristics of that dialect?
Dyer: Well, like I say, I mean, there's traditional musics that have been existing in South Africa for centuries, and I believe that some of those sounds definitely make their way into what is called South African jazz, especially if you look at the Xhosa traditions of the bow music, and even the tonalities and the melodies. You can hear that quite clearly in some of the jazz music of musicians who originate from that part of South Africa.
So that's one of the clearest examples, I would say, of something very distinct that also then gets combined with maybe swing or that kind of thing and the types of ensembles that you find in jazz music. So it's likeingredients and different elements that come together, and they create this sound.
Letsolao: You were mentioning some of the jazz greats. We'd be remiss not to mention your dad who is one of them, and you guys have recorded and performed together. Was that always kind of default your path?
Dyer: I don't know. I mean, in a way, yes. But I don't know. I grew up with music around me because of my dad. You know? So, music has kind of always been a part of my life in some way. But, when I decided to become a musician, I wasn’t living with my dad. It was when I was in high school living in Botswana, actually. But my cousins there were also avid music listeners, music lovers, and had a very eclectic taste in music. You know?
It was the age of CDs and people releasing singles. So my cousins were always buying new music. All sorts of stuff. And I thought, wow. This music thing is so great. You know? Even beyond, like, a jazz thing, I just kind of fell in love with what music was, and I thought, wow. This is such a great thing to do, and if I could be there, I'd be happy.
Letsoalo: So then what is this tour in the States about, you’re traveling with your trio? What can we expect from those performances?
Dyer: So I'm playing trio. I've always really loved the piano trio thing. You know, as a piano player, I think a piano trio is a special, special thing for us because there's a lot of tradition behind it in terms of piano trio play. And, usually, it kind of expands the roles because there's no horn players. So there's more space for everyone to do a little bit more and and contribute more to the sound. So it's kind of cool because it opens up possibilities for a lot more interplay, I would say, to kinda stretch things.
So, yeah, it's kind of my music, spanning my career from different albums and interpreting that music in a trio format. I also released a trio album in 2018, so I will be playing some music from there. Yeah. You see, we have such a big repertoire and, you know, the concert is only so long.
So sometimes it's difficult to think, okay, “today, how am I feeling or what do I feel is gonna be the thing that I want to present today?” So that's always a challenge. But, yeah, I'm looking forward to this.
Letsoalo: So does the set list kind of go on vibes?
Dyer: Yeah. Pretty much, how I'm feeling or or what I think would work best. Or, you know, for today's show, for instance, we are playing with Malachi Whitson for the first time. So it was just playing a bunch of repertoire and seeing which works the best for this ensemble.
So it's also that just to see, okay, what stuff does he take to more readily and does he feel comfortable with? And how is that interplay and connection; which songs bring out the best?
Letsoalo: That makes sense. And so through these performances, I imagine your experiences in the States - is there an album project in the future, or are you also just going with the flow right now?
Dyer: Yes. Actually, I'm planning a recording soon. I was thinking about maybe recording in the States, but now I'm thinking maybe I'll record it back home. I'm still kind of formulating it, but I have a pretty good idea of what I like to do. And, yeah, it'll probably be somewhere like a trio project that I'm looking to record in the next few months.
Letsoalo: Alright. That's very exciting to us. In the meantime, is there anything that you want to plug? Where can people find you?
Dyer: Well, you know, search for Bokani Dyer on the social media spaces, and you should be able to find me pretty easily.
Letsoalo: Perfect.
